Starting in 2009 we will post our own rankings based on performance at AKC dog shows. We do this for a number of reasons. We want to recognize some of those dogs owned by the average dog show exhibitor, the exhibitor who doesn’t have a trust fund, the exhibitor who has a regular job and can’t make it to 150 shows a year, the exhibitor who doesn’t have access to a corporate jet to show in four cities in four days. Bottom line, we think if you give the average exhibitor (our version of Plumber Joe) some recognition, we might encourage more people to enter an AKC dog show.
We have developed a ranking system that tries to correct some of the inequities inherent in the current system.
- We will count only all breed shows.
- We will score each group win equal to the win in the other groups. Said another way, a Group One in the Working Group will count the same as the Group One In the Herding Group at the same show. The current rankings count all the dogs that competed in the breeds that day. Therefore, a dog, unopposed in a breed, can go forward to the group and get credit for defeating dogs he/she never faced. To illustrate the inequity, consider this; the average Working Group winner gets 21 percent of the points at a show, while the average Terrier Group Winner gets eight percent, even though the former has faced 25 opponents in the group and the latter has faced 26. Group winners will be awarded four points. Group Two gets three points, Group Three two, and Group Four one. BIS will get the sum of the group wins, 28 points (Seven Groups at four points each) because a Best In Show is really, really special.
- We will give extra points for big shows. Shows up to 1,000 dogs will score as out lined above. One additional point will be added to each win for every additional 250 dogs showing, i.e., BIS at a show with 1,000 dogs is worth 28, 1,250 is worth 35, 1,500 42, etc.
Now, we will still track and report the traditional rankings. We are not populist extremists wishing to overthrow the dog world elite nor do we harbor any delusions about who we are. The traditional rankings are important and we respect that. However, remember, these lists, like dog shows, are recreation. So don’t take them too seriously. Have fun with them. Our intent is to encourage you out there to get enthusiastic about dog shows.
I LOVE IT!! 4 Paws up!!
ReplyDeleteBut for those of us that are curious, isn't this going to be extrememly time consuming?
Great idea! This will be fun to follow. Especially like your evening out the scores at the Group level.
ReplyDeleteWow!!! What an idea!
ReplyDeleteBD
Great idea...I always thought Terriers got the short end of the stick!
ReplyDeleteOn Animal Planet a Bulldog named Mouse won the Non Sporting group. Does someomne know how to contact his owners, or have the dogs full name or web site?
ReplyDeleteIn the spirit of consideration of the Average Dog Show exhibitor, why not, the next time you refine these ratings, add the one national specialty show for each breed? Adding one show for each recognized breed would not discriminate between breeds, and it would give some recognition to the competition between the top specials in each breed, which many of the top winning all breed dogs aren't involved in that much. Also these shows are often the only time that some "Joe the Exhibitors" really travel to a show.
ReplyDeleteI GO TO DOG SHOW POOP BEFORE THE A.K.C. WEEKLY WINS. D.S.P. is more current and right on the money
ReplyDeletewhat about possibly listing any new champions for the week. For some of us that may be the biggest title we get as we can't afford to special our dog and even if we could we wuold have to compete against "heavy hitters" with money, professional handlers and dogs going to 150 shows per year...i know this would be a long list but it could be just that a list no photos just names & owners & breeders. Other than looking up our dogs to check points if you don't have the name or AKC reg number champion dogs are just that with a certificate to vaidate. Making a list with their registered name with the title of champion in front of their name is REALLY exciting to us and I know I cried tears of joy when I realized my dog had just got the 5 pt major and became a NEW CHAMPION!!! I was so thrilled, shocked & happy all at the same time! I would have loved for people to read his name that follow dog shows as it may end up being the only recognition we get.
ReplyDeleteRE Nationals: How many Nationals are won the Average Joe? Maybe an Average Joe wins in your breed/s, but not in mine.
ReplyDeleteIt can happen! Dream big!
ReplyDeleteI think the ideal behind this is great along with the mission statement. That said I think that you should open this up to owners who have top 5 or 10 in their breed if you truly want to level the playing field then look at your site for the most part it is all the usual people.
ReplyDeleteYour blog has become one of my favorite sites to visit. I know you put a HUGE amount of time into the rankings, but I was wondering if you could find a way to squeak in the numbers so we know how close the dogs are in the standings.
ReplyDeleteThanks again for all your hard work, it is enjoyed.
Maybe we can all pitch in and report results as they come available. This is a great read and YES! must take a lot of dedication. Thanks Bill!
ReplyDeleteI'm more interested in breed rankings than group. Most of us only compete at the breed level.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy the beautiful pics you put on your site also the information. It sounds as if you have taken on a very ambitous task. I am new at showing and find your site very helpful to me and also gives me ambition to achieve greater heights in the dog show world. Thanks for your site.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see a ranking system based on GRCH point system rather than dogs defeated in each breed. It would be much more accurate because: lets say there is a good dog shown in an area where there are not may of his/her breed that dog has to win almost every time to accumulate enough points via the one point for each dog defeated system. A mediocre dog shown in an area where there are many dogs in his/her breed shown could go out and by either showing exceptionally well for a change or by some judging error win a huge amount of breed points.
ReplyDeleteI think your goals are admirable, but I'm not so sure they're being met under your system... The top ten are pretty much the same in each list, dominated by professional handlers and dogs that are campaigned all over the country.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if we all cared a little less about who's #1, and celebrated the beauty of ALL the good dogs.........
I for one, believe that dog shows would rise in popularity if there was such a thing as state and regional champions. It is a sport for the rich, so the rest of us end up supporting them, we add to their breed point totals. It does seem that the pros and the rich get the advantage. Having a good dog, isn't enough unless there's tons of money behind it. A state championship, might change that. Thoughts, anyone?
ReplyDeleteWell, I had all intentions of posting a comment about the DSP rankings. It looks like in the past 2 months other people have beaten me to the punch. It does seem like a lot of work for almost all the same top dogs in the rankings. While the intentions were great to recognize the Average Joe, I think it still falls with the campaigned dogs. Some of the ideas listed above are great.
ReplyDeleteBilly, I think you had a grand idea by trying to tweak the rankings system. That said, you do realize, don't you, that right now you have EXACTLY the same 10 dogs in your Top Ten as all the magazine-based systems?
ReplyDeleteFrom where I sit in the Laze-E-Boy, the 2 big issues are as follows:
1) Way too many shows are counted. Only obscenely wealthy people can afford to put a dog out there every weekend. Twenty or 30 shows a year would tell us all we really need to know about the quality of a given Special.
2) There's no discrimination about points for "dogs defeated." Under all current systems, a handler flies his top special for 1 day (under a judge known to love the dog) to an itty-bitty show in the middle of nowhere, where it's a sure bet for Group 1 and maybe BIS. Picks up 500 easy points. Meanwhile, #2 dog IN HIS BREED is off winning the National Specialty, gets maybe 100 pts. Which dog has accomplished more? Never mind, I know the answer!
Your blog is fun & I enjoy following it. But I'm not sure that the obsession with "who's #1" means much, by anyone's current system.
Best Regards,
Patty H
I am giving you a standing ovation !! So right you are !! Old saying "money talks" ...
DeleteLove this website !!!
ReplyDeleteBut i wish you could have a little link for some junior rankings! I all ways love to see the next big handlers !!
Was in the Garden a couple of years ago. There was an entry of approx 48 Ridgebacks. All nice dogs and thirty-five of the best owner handled dogs in the country were there. Judge made her first cut of twelve. All but one dog, were on handlers. There was one person, a long time breeder handling her own dog. The BOB, BOS and all the AOM dogs were Pro handled. The Judge, (Shame on Her) couldn't find one owner handled dog in the whole group worthy of an award? Is this just a Pro-handler award ceremony or is it really a dog show?
ReplyDeleteAs others have pointed out, I notice that your ranking system still "finds" the same dogs as the traditional rankings. I agree with a previous comment that too many shows are considered. It would be more reasonable to cut the number of shows to 50. Then instead of using the 50 best shows for that dog, which still favors the heavily campaigned dogs, just use the first 50 shows the dog attends (or no more than 5 per month). Average working people can attend 50 shows a year (roughly two weekends a month). Only counting the 50 biggest wins for a dog allows one that is heavily campaigned to loose a lot and still "look better" than a superior dog that is being shown by an average Joe.
ReplyDeleteI applaud your attempt to recognize "Joe Owner Handler," but agree with many other observers above that your system does not go far enough to even the playing field for the "average" exhibitor, if that is truly your goal.
ReplyDeleteI am a grad student with zero money and less time. I made only five (2-day) shows so far this year and got two group 3s. Nothing fantastic, sure, but it is pretty good for a small time OH with her second show dog ever.
It makes me wonder - I have a 10% group placement rate this year. How would all these great dogs be ranked if they were ranked by "wins per entry" instead? That is, give them points as per your current DSP ranking, then divide by the total number of shows they have entered. That would make huge strides towards evening the field for those of us who can't get to 150 shows.
(No way to give bonus points for "grooms her own dog the night before a physics midterm", I suppose? Or "shows to whatever judge is within a few hours driving distance because she has tons of homework she has to get done this weekend, too"?)