Henry II schools Phillip II on Titles
We have made a practice to keep our soap box discreetly stowed for most of the history of this blog, but today in researching this week’s shows we came across a couple of interesting entries that cause us to ascend that platform. At one show we noticed that all of the entries were from one owner, not really unusual in these times of 300 entry dog shows. However this entry has Champion and Grand Champion dogs entered in the Open Class. Well, call us naïve, but we never had heard of such a practice. While we have been told that such is within the permitted, we’re pretty sure that it is contrary to the spirit of good sportsmanship.
Now, we have in the past entered two or three puppies in a show with our adult BBE entry to get some help from the judges in determining who the real “keeper” of the bunch was and though we have never “built” our own major, we have seen it done, though we have frequently witnessed such majors go to an unexpected single entry owner. In this case we wonder what the owner intended. Were they needing some help from the judges to tell them whether their GCH, their CH, or their true class dog was the better dog? Or were they hoping their class dog would take the points over their CH and GCH? Generally one is a little chagrined when a class dog beats one’s special. Perhaps when it is one’s own dog, the sting of being told the GCH lost is less?
Such blatant purchasing of titles should be discouraged, for it demeans all of us. What is then the value of the title? We recall in the movie The Lion In Winter the aging King of England, Henry II, telling the boy King of France, Phillip II, “A king? Because you put your ass on purple cushions? “ Where do the AKC and National Breed Clubs stand on this?
If a Champion is a CHAMPION, the judges should be able to find it whether it is in the Puppy Class, Open Class or Breed Class. Seriously, the BEST dog should be awarded BEST OF BREED/VARIETY, what difference does it make whether he was entered in Open or Best of Breed? If the champions or grand champions are entered in Open, they are STILL champions ... right? So, if a Judge awards a BBE or Puppy the points, how is it any less of a win? How is it "buying" a championship? Champions are champions. I think we should be able to enter our dogs, as long as they are eligible for the class, how we see fit. It's the Judge's job to sort them out. If the dogs lack merit, champions or no, they should withhold ribbons.
ReplyDeleteGreat thread! Curious to see the responses!
ReplyDeleteI have seen this done, Billy, but usually with just maybe 1 extra entry to help make a major. Especially with a coated breed that needs lots of grooming. You can fool SOME judges with a poorly groomed entry in hopes that the entry that you need the major(s) on is groomed to perfection and beats the champion. Being curious, I looked at the catalog entries that you are referring to and I think I found the breed that has those entries. Curiously enough, the other 2 bitches that are in the Open class that don't have 'Ch' in front of their names are actually champions also - look it up on AKC.org. So, this person has 5 bitches entered, 4 of which are champions and that is it for the class entry. So, now what does everyone think of THAT? It will be interesting to see the online results.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of my favorite point of discussions with AKC competitive conformation shows. So often a Champion recieves its' title in truly an unfair circumstance as so many judges will give ribbons no matter what as there seems to always be a large pull of ON LINE discussions about any judge withholding ribbons and therefore many judges do not care to get in the crossfire of events so awards are given and Champions and GCH are awarded titles that perhaps are not worthy. This holds true with building one's own major in an area where there are few entries and then enter only on class dog or bitch and because the crossfire many judges award crossover majors that are not worthy of a major. I'm going back to my crate.
ReplyDeleteGreat thread and I'm anxious for more discussion.
What a sad state the dog show world has come too! People care more for "false titles" than the joy of showing for the advancement of the purebreed dog. I have left showing behind before because it stoped being about finding the best dog and became about something else altogether. After many years I decieded to return only to find out nothing has changed, and it never will if the good intentioned exhibitors can not find a united voice to stop such behavior. We all know about the politics, favortism, and such that goes on yet we only speak of it in hushed tones. I was told at a resent show that my puppy was favored by the judge but he just could not put him up over a special. Guess I did not know about that rule?????? Yes a good judge should be able to find the best dog no matter the class but that does not always mean thats the dog they will place! I for one would support any judge who might not award a ribbon if they did not think the entry worthy!
ReplyDeleteI've only been doing this for 4 years now, with 2 rare (and coated!) breeds which would be nearly impossible to finish without some "major-building." I got most of my Sealyham bitch's single points by entering her against my male "special." She almost always beat him because she was just a better specimen, Puppy Class or not, and she went on to a short but very successful Specials career.
ReplyDeleteMy only problem with this is that it's so rare for judges to withhold ribbons. I've definitely seen some majors made using pet-quality filler dogs. If the owners of the "champions" created that way want to delude themselves, so be it. They are only cheating themselves.
Patty H.
I have seen this happen a few times in my breed. I think the reasoning behind it was because the exhibitor wanted to finish his/her dogs from
ReplyDeletethe puppy class, and we do have trouble getting majors.
Do I think it is right? No. In some cases, the exhibitor knows the judge and vice versa so the judge will go along with the exhibitor and award the points to the dog that needs the points. Does this do anything to improve our breed??? Heck, no. You aren't getting the honest opinion of a judge, and how can the breed benefit from this type of judging??? It can't.
JMO. DeAnn
I needed one point on my BBE bitch and could not find points so I entered my champion in open. But I also properly groomed my open/Ch bitch and found a good junior handler to handle her. I think this is perfectly fine.
ReplyDeleteIt is my humble opinion that Champions should not be allowed to enter a open class!!! This is why we have a Best of Breed class. Its kind of like allowing a pro football player to play on a pee wee team. I think anyone who enters a special in a open class either must not think much of their champion or is only doing so to build points. Which to me means they must already know that the judge will not place the special over the dog they are trying to get points on. Why is everyone in such a hurry to finish anyway. If you keep at it long enough and your dog is worthy than you should eventually be able to get their championship without cutting corners.
ReplyDeleteI've seen this not only building own majors, but in the process building up Breed Points for a ranked special owned by the individual. An expensive proposition and not very satisfying.
ReplyDeletePeople that feel the need to put their champions in open class just to win are obviously not interested in the true meaning of the sport of showing the dog. They are manipulative and the bottom line is that they can only create a win by stepping back down. I guess they will never get any farther then just finishing a mediocre dog
ReplyDeleteNot much difference between this unethical behavior and just sending a check to the AKC to buy a championship and dog ranking. And the AKC is wondering why entries are down! Perhaps they need to review these practices that they have chosen to turn a blind-eye to.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have that "special" puppy that goes out at 6 months on a five day circuit, finishes his/her title, completely untrained, then what do you do? How do you get any ring experience on them? Behavior is forgiven in the puppy class, as IMO, should be. I go to conformation class, but after the same person examines your dog week in and out, it loses the feel of the new experience that we have each weekend. It doesn't have the noise level or the PA system to get them used to.
ReplyDeleteWith the numerous shows and minimal breeders in my area, it is quite certain that I don't have a choice but to build my own points, be it with finished dogs or unfinished dogs. When it comes to majors, we have to work together and as a breed we do. We have to travel further and that increases your expenses. Sometimes it is a benefit to support your local clubs with an entry to help them stay afloat. Depends on the judge, provisional judges need meet their criteria. We are losing more judges than we are gaining.
just my two cents, but I don't think Champions should be shown in the classes once they have their title, no matter what the excuse. I keep hearing the excuse of not enough dogs, not enough points....well if you keep feeding into the AKC point system then your not really helping by continuing to build up the entry. There are several breeds out there with the same problem and we aren't loading up the ring with our specials...I think there are enough dogs in the breeds...the problem we are having is the lack of participation and motivation to groom our dogs properly and prepare them for the show ring, along with costs, travel, etc and this is why we see poor entries.
ReplyDeleteDon't make excuses for something that you as breed and club members yourself can fix...its kind of like complaining about the winner of a political race, but you didn't vote. So until you work with and promote your breed amongst the masses, and really make an effort to encourage exhibitors, don't use excuses as to why you've built a major when I'm sure there was someone somewhere that would be willing to show there dogs. They either lack knowledge, or the know how and confidence to get in the ring. And if they beat you, be proud that you were the one that taught them how to do it.
Thats the problem with dog shows today, no pride...just greed and selfishness...and they wonder why the sport is on a decline...
Our shows with 300 to 400 entries is insane...
Maybe its just me,but why would someone want to show a finished champion in a class?It would make much more sense to show it as a special because majority of the time the special in any breed will go BOB at a particular dog show unless the dog is not showing at its best that day.
ReplyDeleteOn the subect of buy ones championship title,people will stoop to anything to get the ignitials CH in frount of the dogs names.It makes people that have worked darn hard(shedding blood and tears)to get those ignitials in frount of their dogs name think what was the poing when you can just go buy it.I thought dog showing was to premote your dogs and your kennel but instead buying championships make one look like their are some people out their that will do anything to get their own way.Maybe they should step back and re-evaluate the dog and figure out why the dog is not winning and getting their championship.I have only been in this sport for 7 years and have finished three dogs in that time all under the age of two years old.One of those dogs almost took me two years to finish.All I can say is I am glad that I stayed with it untill the dog got the ignitials CH in front of the name the "right" way.
the poster above has touched on the self promotion with complete disregard for the spirit of competition or tradition in this sport. Repetitive rebreeding to put yet more puppies in the ring to make yet more points for your kennel does nothing to promote your breed. No wonder you cannot find majors unless they are all your own, if you are not part of the gang you are out of luck. A single entry 1 day and an abundance the next...or go to a cluster where no one is likely to enter in breed....sad state for AKC...the entries are obviously in decline and this is one good reason for it
ReplyDeletethe entries are in decline because costs have gone even higher, and so many judges are going with the political choice, not the most standard-correct choice. We have a dog in my breed with a horrendous front and rear, even working dog breeder-judges don't care because he is "showy" and now his wins help propel him to more wins. The handler and owner are seen working up the judges right and left. They have no shame. $2000+ a week in advertising really works!
ReplyDeleteThis entire scheme smacks of the bullying so prevalent now. If you don't comply with the clique falling down when instructed for the planned class animal to be winners you are shunned...this cannot happen in large entry breeds but in smaller ones this is a game that succeeds. Don't want to play, there will be no points to be had. The weak link is the judge who sadly will not withold when appropriate
ReplyDeleteWe have ventured so far from the purpose of shows to pick breeding stock. Most tradition has left long ago. Some rules are revised and others are allowed to remain in place but there is no continuity and thus loopholes to be exploited. Shameful commentary on how some gain titles. They are meaningless and the push for rankings meaningless as well.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to comment on an earlier comment about finishing out of the puppy classes and then wanting to use open as training because the dog hasn't learned how to stack/stand/move properly and generally behave in the ring.
ReplyDeleteBehavior in the ring is not only an aid to the judge but also indicative of behavior as set forth in the breed standard. If you believe your finished dog needs more ring time to improve behavior, why would showing the dog in open be any better than showing in breed? Practice is practice. Is this merely to avoid exasperating a judge who is expecting exhibitors in breed to have properly behaving dogs?
And this gets to a different but related complaint: that too many finish out of the puppy classes. The evaluation of dogs is to be based on the adult dog. A 6-month-old, a 9-month-old, a 12-month-old, even an 18-month-old dog is not an adult. Significant changes occur, particularly in shape and movement. I think it is more common than not that dogs that finish as puppies end up as disappointing 3-year-olds. And this ends up both devaluing the title of champion as well as diminishing the quality of the breed.
The purpose of dog shows is so far gone, its amazing that anyone still shows with the intent of breeding stock! When you can essentially buy wins, either through entering your retired and finished dogs or taking out ads in the magazines every week, it is no longer a goal of bettering the breed, but feeding one's ego through how many wins they can get.
ReplyDeleteI personally think we should get rid of the CHs allowed in the Open class and the ranking system. Make it harder to finish dogs and make a CH something to be proud of! Perhaps we should look into adopting the UK's system.
In Australia, there are no seperate classes for Champions, they compete in their appropriate age classes. Hence, judges do not know which dogs are champions, and can judge according to quality, not a title! Some exhibitors complain, as mediocre dogs stuggle to get points, but realistically, if they are good enough, they will title!
ReplyDeleteLots of interesting points of view, but I've gone back & checked on the particular situation that got Billy so riled, and I'm not at all sure there's anything wrong with it. The exhibitor in question is a very young woman who has bred a series of spectacular dogs. She threw a couple of her home-grown champions into the open class in order to make her own major. So, if the judge passes over the finished bitches in favor of the BBE bitch, how on Earth is this "cheating??!!"
ReplyDeleteThere's lots of stuff to get upset about in the world of show dogs, I do not think this is one of those things!
Patty H.
I have ZERO problem with what this particular young lady has done. She breeds fabulous dogs. If she wants to create a major, using bona-fide home-grown champions, what's the issue? The judge is supposed to be able to evaluate each entry, on the day. If this girl's BBE is nicer than her Grand Champion, then bravo to her!
ReplyDeleteFolks who want to hyper-analyze this might want to consider getting themselves a life.
Patty H.
It was pointed out the judge as often being a weak link in this process, not specfically here. .. no commentary for or against this panel of judges.
ReplyDeleteIt is mentioned about the young lady handler...why get specific about the handler? No one mentioned any specific handler, only an entry and a situation in general raising a question, the discussion is about a rule and a situation not about a handler, young or old, male or female, pretty or ugly. The discussion is about DOGS.
This ultimately should be about dogs, not specific dogs, about our sport of showing dogs, an endeavor steeped in tradition.
This tradition is being eroded by the minute, the respect is sometimes completely invisible. We play in a field left to us hopefully by ladies and gentlemen. Rules harken back to perhaps gentler times with no internet or instant gratification.
Some regulations changed as practicable due to times, some rules did not change. Many of us have been devotees for 30, 40 or more years. We are no longer young and cute or handsome and lack texting skills, oh surprise, surprise. We have built a program not rewarded by instant success, we never dreamed of a win while under the watchful eye of a mentor if lucky enough to have a good one.
Our rewards are cherished for the devotion over the years, but our main reward is the dog, a culmination of efforts of many individuals and lives of many dogs. Our devotion and contributions go beyond throwing on a hat for Morris and Essex because we are told to do so. Some of us remember Morris and Essex for real.
A sport of ladies and gentlemen, a gentle sport of respect. A sport where you are given a venue to share and learn, a sport where the sprit of the law should rule without every instance being legislated.
Think about it the next time your dog relieves itself on a ring gate.
I want to say that I have no idea what show or what handler started the discussion we are having. I don't think anyone intended to point a finger
ReplyDeleteat an individual, just at a situation that can (and has) come about. The issue of showing champions in the open class......for whatever reason....
was the subject.
As far as in Australia where CH. compete in the classes, I feel that with the
way the economy is and the small numbers of dogs at shows, to implement this type of rule would surely cause many problems. I am not saying this is a bad way of doing things, but it would really make
getting a championship difficult.
DeAnn
DeAnn, I think that is the point. How many "cheap" Champions are there now? How many dogs have you looked at in your breed and said "How on earth did THAT finish?". How many times does the inferior specimen win over an outstanding class dog because it is a Champion? It is too easy to finish a mediocre dog and I feel our breeds are suffering because of it. As someone pointed out "judges do not know which dogs are champions, and can judge according to quality, not a title!"
ReplyDeleteI agree with that way of thinking!
The AKC is systematically creating a dual system in dog shows: one for big time handlers with big money backers and one for the rest of us. One where wins at the breed and group level go to the former and one where an owner handler may be allowed to win Winners and maybe even Best of Winners, unless one of the handlers complains to the judge beforehand. They throw in a beefed up Owner/Handler group, Grand Champion (where a dog never has to go BOB to earn the title) and the insulting Amateur Owner Handler class. Within this flimsy framework the "little people" are supposed to distract themselves and fight each other for the leftovers.
ReplyDeleteEnter into this new age dog show world breeder/owner/handlers who have learned not how to breed a better dog, but how to deftly exploit loopholes in the rules pertaining to dog shows. When a single owner stacks the entry with Champions/Grand Champions showing out of Open to simultaneously finish a class bitch and title a specials dog we are all the losers. Who is hurt by the shenanigans that have gone on in Maryland this weekend? Everybody who stills shows dogs because they believe the system isn't as flawed as some people think. Everybody who shows and still thinks that once in a while, at shows without many well known handlers, a good dog will still win. And really those hurt the most are the people purpetrating the fraud on themselves and the rest of us. This is the kind of thing that spreads like wildfire around the e-lists and at club meetings. Names are named there and a loss of respect is sure to follow. The fact that many of the comments to this blog post indicate that other exhibitors do the same is really sad. This could never have been the spirit present when dog show rules were originally written.
When this weekend is over and these unsportsmanlike exhibitors go home to post their wins on their websites nobody will believe they have bred dogs of any quality. Obviously if someone has pride and faith in the quality of what they've bred, they aren't afraid of honest competition.
Who says a title should be easy to win and who said a dog should finish in one show season? If this is what it takes nowdays to finish dogs it is further evidence of the erosion of our sport.
Britain is a relatively small island with no-where near the number of shows or the number of judges that we have in the US.
ReplyDeleteIn the UK several judges in my Breed are breeder/judges, so many exhibitors and judges know each other, and it's known who exhibits which dog and who the big winners are, unlike here where I think I could show every week for years and I doubt, with maybe a couple of exceptions, anyone who judges would have a clue who I am.
In the UK, Chs do compete with non Chs; consequently, many dogs worthy of the title of Ch never finish because people know who is out to break records, as we do here, so on occasion the CCs are awarded to the big winner of the year because some judges want to be a part of sending a dog on the way to become the record holder of CCs. So even on the day the class dog could be the better choice, but politics come to play and the Ch wins perhaps its 62nd CC and the better dog goes without the win. When one looks at a UK pedigree and there is no Ch. in front of a dog's name, it might not be because it was not worthy, there could have been a dog on a roll, perhaps longer than it should have been, preventing a lot of dogs from winning their crown.
Politics are part of the show game world over,
and we see similar behaviours here, not with CCs but with Groups and BIS. Some judges seem to jump on the band wagon and give dogs Groups/BIS because every other judge has done it, when in the past in a line up of Chs they couldn't find that dog for Best of Breed. When I look at results online, and I'm sure many of you do the same thing, often one can call the Groups/BIS from the comfort of home. I've been doing just that the past few days, and tonight I'm waiting to see some results because I just read who was doing a Group and thought 'aha, that's why that dog is there.' Why bother with the expense of showing, at least a Champion, if you can tell which dogs are going to win when you aren't even in the same State? :-)
So be careful what you wish for - every time you walk in the ring, do you really want to compete in the open class with 'Ch. Big Budget, ProHandler, Mega Advertising Campaign, Fluffy Paws' on its way to breaking the BIS record for that Breed???? I don't.
I will agree that championship status is to easily achieved in the U.S. now.
ReplyDeleteAnd I more than agree with you about questioning how some dogs in
my breed have finished, but I do think that having a system such as in
the UK would not be the answer either. I do think people would get discouraged showing against a top ranked dog in the classes. There must
be another way to toughen the system up, but I don't have a good answer.
I know there are many champions out there that finished just because of
the handler. DeAnn
I agree with almost all the posts on this subject, but am sad to say I am also at a loss has to what to do about it. With that being said I believe that we can do something if we could unite for the good of the sport. I love purebreed dogs and am a traditionalist at heart. If the point of the show is to judge dogs against their own standard and not against other dogs than that is the way it should be. Standards are to some extent open to interpertation but some times the black and white of the page is what it is. If the standard says a dog should be no more than 14inches at the withers and 15 inches is a disqualification then why do I see specials winnning breed and group placement that not only should have never finished but should have beeen excused from the ring from day one. They might be great dogs in everyway but if the are 15 1/2 inches than they should be disqualified because that is what the standard says. PERIOD! Not open for interpratation! I think alot of the blame for all the politics and buying of wins lays in the Judges corner. These people are paid to give a honest and fair opinion. We are taught to treat them with respect and never question in public thier sometimes not so honest decisions. It has come to the point where I really would not give two cents for some of their opinions on my dog. Let me say again that I love purebreed dogs and I used to love showing but lately I'm starting to wonder why I even bother. This upsets me alot because I don't want the bad politics and unsavory practices to ruin the sport. I want to feel that I have a fair chance at going BEST OF SHOW at any show I enter if my dog deserves it. Sometimes a cynic is only a frustrated optimist!!
ReplyDeleteSarah, you are right. The only power we have is to not enter to judges we don't respect. You can let clubs know why you didn't enter their shows and how they could make them more attractive to exhibitors like yourself. You can talk with the AKC rep about observable behavior by the judge you found contrary to the spirit, if not the letter of the dog show rules. You can join your local all breed club, regional breed club and parent breed club and give input when judges for your club's shows are being selected. And finally, you can write positive letters to your clubs and the judge when you
ReplyDeletefind one doing a great job with his/her assignment.
When we don't speak up but keep entering shows with less than favorable panels we get the dog shows we deserve.
How about making clubs reapply for the right to hold a show if they only pull say 500-600? make the clubs get together and hold 2 per weekend and make them big ones. (I know some remote areas have a hard time but certain areas should be grandfathered!) No reason for a show in NJ or MA to have an entry of 450 on a Thursday!
ReplyDeleteHow about making the requirements harder for finishing with an age limit. One major after at LEAST 15 months age or preferably 24 months?
The subject of Owner handlers vs pros are tough because the reason we should be going to shows is to evaluate breeding material. In my heart i would want an Owner handled Group and BIS on occasion instead of puppies and bred by or stupid BOS groups??(since that is what I am - OH) but it does take us away from what the reason for the original dogs shows were for. But I don't think any one in the 1880s expected that it would all be about winning 100+ BIS and then the bitch never have puppies or the dog being sterile..... So really? Owner handled Group and Bis would not be that off the mark after all at today's shows.
Professional handlers and judges make a living off this but so they did in the earlier years too. when the number of shows were smaller, the number of clients smaller too. It really has gone out of hand. Ranking systems if they all should be there need to include veteran of the year, owner handler of the year and puppy of the year if so. Rare breed of the year.. That would make it fairer for all and intrigue more people to attend more shows. I know that my own dogs sit home November and December if i show them as specials because MANY (not all!) judges wont dare to give them placements over the top contenders during the crucial months, and handlers most likely will be going bananas traveling all over flying right and left for a win or placement in areas you never see them normally. It just takes the fun of going to shows. I have been there. I have done it and its not fun to have that pressure. I never left my home area this year! It was nice!
Just some personal thinking...
:) - AS
HEAVENLY DOG SHOW
ReplyDeleteOne day in Heaven, a few of the Saints were sitting around, leisurely watching their dogs playing around the kennels. "I'm getting bored..." John groaned. Paul glanced up and said, "So am I."
"Well, then," said Peter, "Why don't we have a dog show?" Both John and Paul began smiling at the thought of such a thoroughly good idea. "But," John inquired, "Who could we compete against?" Peter replied, "I suggest we give Satan a call and invite him to enter his mongrels.”
“You sure you want to do that?” asked Paul. “We're bound to win.” Peter continued. “We’ve got all the Group Winners, Best in Show's, Best of Breed's, Field Trial Champions, Obedience Champions--everything. We've got all the good dogs up here, while the dogs down there with him are mean and difficult. We can't lose!" So they made the call and invited Satan to enter the show.
Satan laughed. "Why do you want to go through all that humiliation when we would certainly beat you?" The three Saints couldn't understand this. “What do mean, Satan?” Peter asked, “We have all the top winners in the world in every field in our kennels. What makes you so confident your dogs can beat ours?” “Have you forgotten so soon?” Satan laughed…
I HAVE ALL THE JUDGES!”
I have to disagree with the comments by the person who said that you can't be someone who has been in the sport for long time or a nationally ranked dog.It is hard but it can be done.I have done both in my particular breed.I did this without even advertising my dog.One of my dogs(one I am still showing)was ten points away from being in the top 20 of my breed last year at the age of two,without being shown at big shows everyweekend or advertised or being out with a handler.So it can be done.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of why your dog is not winning,go to the judges that you know will put up your dog even if it means that you have to travel some distance.
I agree for some of the breeds it is hard to find majors in the area where you live so people are having to travel more so they can find the major.That is why I think that the akc needs to stop raising the numbers for the breeds in certain areas of the country where it is hard to find majors.They are making it impossible for people to finish their dogs,especially for the ones who can't take the who week off and travel across the country to a show.And the akc or all the different dog shows orginizations wonder why the numbers are down.It doesn't take a genious to figure this one out.
How about we just get rid of the judges who judge on faces and get rid of the advertising magazines? How about making it an equal playing field so the judges are FORCED to actually judge dogs?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else feel that the quality of their breed is actually diminishing because judges are putting up completely incorrect specimens?
Here is my opinion on the persons comment on wondering why their stuff is not finishing.Maybe you should step back and re-evaluate your breeding stock.Is their a chance you are not researching it long enought to find the best breeding to improve your line.Don't breed just so you can have a dog in the show ring some season.Instead of bringing out new puppies one show season,look at your finished champions and decided maybe one of them looks good to bring back out and specialize for awhile.Or maybe you need to look at someone elses line in your particular breed and buy a puppy you maybe able to use in your breeding line in the future.
ReplyDeleteI feel it cheapens the award if you build majors among your own dogs.
ReplyDeleteWe have a breed that is almost non existent West of the Mississippi, and through communication with other exhibitors, the willingness to drive or send a dog, we find majors. It's not easy, but then, something worthwhile never is.
Sureley an indictment on our so called "sport" when one hears the same
ReplyDeletecomments on the other side of the world. Advertising, pro handlers, biased judges, it seems to be the same the world over, whatever the system.
Australian dogs in the main are owner or breeder handled (except perhaps for the smattering of talented ex junior handlers who earn some extra weekend cash) yet the same problems occur!
Did I read in an earlier post that a dog can be awarded a US Grand Champion title without winning BOB?
The Australian Grand Champion title has just been made more difficult. It requires 1000 points (100 points for Australian Champion) plus
1 All Breeds Best In Show, or 4 Best In Group awards. In New Zealand, I believe the title requires 3 x BIS and 100 Challenge Certificates, not an easy exercise in either country. Surely this is the ideal, only superior exhibits earning the right to be named Grand Champion!
We have gotten away from the original subject. The person that perpetrated this situation has demeaned her own dogs and the breed itself. Not only that,what an example to set for your own children. The whole situation is downright disgusting and the wins should be resinded.
ReplyDeleteFurthering the above post...the unsportsmanlike act deemed our entire competition farcical, worthy of no more than playing a numbers game replete with buying a rank. One time maybe disnmissed as beginners luck but repeated times a habit to be penalized. Take the almost $1000 in entries this week alone and make a donation to the Canine Health Foundation!
ReplyDeleteSorry, I'm late to this party We have always called these cheap champions. I can see both sides of this dilemna though having a breed where there are little numbers and often hard to get points. I myself have put in a retired champion when we've needed just one more to make a major. In my breed many of the breeders work together to build these majors so it is not just one exhibitor. I have no problem with that it is the blatant all the dogs in the ring from one person, many ungroomed and a Pro on the one you want to win that I disagree with. There are a couple of people in my breed that do this. There is a person that if they has built a major with their own dogs and someone else shows up will break the major. Their idea (their words) they are not going to "give" someone else a major as if the fact they have entered so many gives them an automatic win. I have had this person break majors to keep me from finishing dogs. That type of behavior is not good sportsmanship. Ultimately this hurts the breed as not only does it do nothing to promote the breed but often shows judges a ring full of unworthy examples. They boast they have 50-60- champions but few of their dogs have had significant wins and many of their championships and other wins are bought and paid for by playing politics. Janet/Akiba
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